10 questions to #Occupy Together

Thomas Körtvélyessy (dancer) and the adminstrator of the facebook page “Occupy Your Spiritual Mind” reflect from their perspectives on some  essential questions on the future of the Occupy movement…

(1) Those bankers are full of greed! It is unjust what they do. But what inner-force is driving us to fight them?  And why do we fight?

– as I see it, bankers and top-business people are currently key players and instrumental in a system that is ever more annihilating the very life-eco-sphere that I am living in today and where any children of future generations may want to live for a perceived ‘profit’. The formerly maintained spaces for art & thinking, spirituality and reform, which had timidly been opened up to more than just the elite to develop further, are now being pushed back by “Austerity measures” under the direct control of the elite again, just like it was in the 19th century. Above all it seems like the population of this planet is to ever more be diminished by the ever more created impoverishment of even the few rich on this planet (citizens of the “Developed Worlds”) to be made to live as precariously as all other human beings on this planet already, be they Dalit or “Third World” citizens.
Therefore I protest and resist wherever possible.
I take it to be my instinct for survival, as a fellow human being, now turned competitor, or face extinction and give up.
[Thomas Körtvélyessy]

– Humanity is preparing to emerge from adolecence into maturation as a race. For too long, Humankind has… behaved as though they were separate from themselves and from everything else. The current reaction is a reflection of a global rise in consciousness which acknowledges that the system in place needs to change in order to reflect the change of heart underway in the Species. [Occupy Your Spiritual Mind]

(2) We have to fight our governments that keep hurting or killing people. In the protests worldwide, thousands of people died. Even some in Europe or US. We were not able to create a safe-haven for our people ourselves. Just they way our governments can’t?  Who is showing them the example? Is there an example? And how can we really do this?

– There are already many small-scale experiments going on, from Auroville to many other small communities all over the planet. These communities do create comparably safe havens. I recommend to study them and learn, do better still. [TK]

– It is impossible to solve a problem with the same consciousness which created it. We must do the opposite of Fight — we must Love. Only Love can dissolve hate. Only Forgiveness can turn an Enemy into an Ally. Only Awareness can grant the means to Enlighten a Dark System of Control. [OYSM]

(3) If we know a better way. How do we show it? How do we teach it?

– I don’t think I should teach anything except by doing and answering when asked. All else leads me, personally, to a level of being that I don’t enjoy, lest that I would continue to exceed dispersing ‘wisdom’ beyond my actual abilities and knowledge. [TK]

– Each Individual must be his or her own Intrument of Change. We must become the Change we wish to see in the World. This involves using every thought, every word, and every action in a way which produces more Unity, Peace, Love, Tolerance, Altruism, the Right to Peacefully Co-Exist, & Brother/Sisterhood. [OYSM]

(4) What do we really stand for? Is it ecology? Is it fairness? Is it human dignity? Is it evolution? In this movement, have we gone better or worse? What are the protests worth? Did it involve education?  Did it bring us together? Or did it create two new fronts?

– My own answer is yes to all of these. [TK]

– You’ve just asked ten questions. We “really stand for” the emergence of a new global awareness based in cooperation and unity consciousness, arising from the selfishness of the old global awareness. As we come more into balance, and the realization that what one of does affects the reality of what all of us does, we will naturally create more sound ecological policies in line with that realization. The dignity we grant to the least of us will cause those least among us to disappear — for there will be no one to suffer for the ends of another. We have arrived at the threshold of realizing our own means to create our reality — Individually and Collectively. Our Intent and Our Vision of what the Human Species can become will be the guiding force in our conscious evolution. It is impossible to judge a movement’s effectiveness while it is in its early stages; it is only possible to determine if the means used thus far demonstrate Unity and Love. Politics and popular voice reflect the Spirituality of those involved. Thus far, Spirituality — One’s fundamental belief as to how we came to be here & why and how we do what we do — has been used as a ploy to divide us along tribal and religious lines in an effort to prevent us from Uniting against those who are controlling and dictating Earth’s Experience to the rest of humanity. We need to decide, demonstrate, and communicate a new basic idea of who and what a Human Being is, and can become in a conscious and aware universe. The more inclusive Unity and Love is in our solution to the conflict of human experience, the more that solution will be in line with the ultimate truth about the universe. This will be the most important fundamental philosophy of the future. [OYSM]

(5) If we stopped believing in the division they uphold, and started to believe in Unity, why do we create a new division of us-and-them?  And how do we make unity of that idea?

– To recognize even a temporary division may prevent the creation and deepening of a more difficult one to overcome. [TK]

The more privilege gained, the harder to recognize one is enjoying them and the even harder, I’d say, and more reluctance to give up such power.

– I believe that as people begin to embrace each other as physical representations of the same Universal Consciousness, they will naturally see past the differences of religion, race, color, creed, spiritual orientation, denomination, or place of birth. We are in the business of creating a new Culture of Awareness.[OYSM]

(6) If we believe there is a universal thinking and universal oneness, why do you think some can’t see it yet? Did you include them in your worldview?  Why not?

– I refer here to the story of the three blind people and the elephant, each touching a different part and exclaiming some other conclusion.

If this story reflects anything ‘universal’ it would help us become more humble and open towards our possible errors, and make us realize that we all need each other’s different perceptions and understandings to come together, in order to get a better perception of the workings of our existence in all the different aspects that we can experience – and to find solutions to new and old problems, whether actual or perceived. (I would much rather prefer a game of possibilities and trying out, while basic survival is granted, rather than as now, risk survival as a species and annihilation of an entire ecosystem just for some abstract ideas, or personal shortcomings, such as a perceived scarcity of resources.) I am fine to use distinction if it can help identify a problem, such as e.g. the mindset of YIN-YANG can help identify a phenomenon (or any other system of distinction) as long as I know that they are temporary and only work on their specific level of understanding.[TK]

– A thing can be true within the mind of a human being, even if it isn’t necessarily factual. What is needed is a re-education, and a demonstration of what is possible when people come together and use Love as the means to solve their differences. Love makes us see that we are not at all different — we simply have different ideas as to how to approach our common problems.[OYSM]

(7) It is of course very good to dream of a better world. But how did you imagine the transition in a peaceful way?  How do we get from one place to the other? What are the steps?

– There is an abundance in historical information, lest it be true, about earlier tries and failures. As long as it is actually possible to try them out I’d say let’s go and try. An important understanding for myself: I may perfectly well be able to go on and live my life towards such goals, but someone else may not, and see me only as a possible source of energy for their own needs – And vice versa for sure as well!

What I see happen currently is that if we don’t unite to give a counterforce, we’ll end up having to work as someone else’s wage-slave, without any alternatives (and perhaps a new caste-system imposed)
If the following quote is based on historical fact, maybe these are the steps:

1 – ignored by the powerful
2 – ridiculed by the powerful
3 – being attacked with violence
4 – winning 
(allegedly a saying by Ghandi?)[TK]

– Step One is to tell the truth about how the Human Race got to where it is today. Step Two is to forgive those who have been tyrannical and cruel, as they were operating in outdated thinking. Step Three is to agree on a common definition of who and what a Human Being is, what needs a Human Being possesses, and provide avenues for those needs to be met in such a way that it affords everyone involved the easiest way to survive, self-actualize, contribute to the common good, and demonstrate to ourselves, each other, and the rest of creation what a Unified Humanity looks like.[OYSM]

(8) If economy and capitalism fails completely, how are we going to help the sick and suffering? How will we  have to reorganize our structures before the transition can be really made? And who will bundle these?

– I would suppose that I can best help the sick and suffering if I have means to do so, be that enough energy, knowledge, understanding, compassion, know-how, fulfilledness etc. The one positive aspect of what is currently happening is that for those of us who lose our comfortable life-style (and finally get to pay-up for the imperialism of the generations before us, even though I’d say it’s to the wrong people for the wrong reasons) in any case, for those of us who find themselves at the looser’s end and get impoverished, there will be many opportunities to be tested as to our abilities in the above – similarly like after the 2nd “World” War in the devastated cities in Europe.[TK]

– Once people come to understand how “commerce” and “money” are yet another system of control, we will naturally devise another system more harmonious and reflective of universal truth. One simple rule will be: if everyone made the same decision and enacted it the same way, would the result be separation or unity? Once we cease competing with each other, glorifying glory at the expense of another, and embrace Love as the means of co-creation, every policy becomes exceedingly elementary.[OYSM]

(9) If there are no more governments, how do we make sure the planet stays in this unity? Why would we first have to fight our governments in order to grow together? Why don’t we include them in the steps? And help them see the unity?

– Our being in similar time-space is all the unity I need, personally. From there,all else follows and is a question of each one of us realising this situation, and that we are in it together.[TK

– Governments will not end because they are destroyed by revolution. The only end result of that line of thinking would be the installation of another variation of the system of Governance. The only means of ending government which is in line with Universal Truth is for government to be dissolved because those being governed had evolved past the need for governance. They take care of themselves and all others in the same manner; becuae they see that there is no “other” — All is One. [OYSM]

 

(10) I know we don’t believe in right or left. I know we will not choose sides anymore. I know we don’t believe in division. But how do we help someone who still does? By protesting against him?

– Well, protest is one way to raise attention[Thomas Körtvélyessy]

– No. By Loving them. You can’t convince anybody to do anything they don’t want to do. But if you Love them, eventually they will ask you how you came to know Peace and Love in your life. Then you will Love them some more.  [Occupy Your Spiritual Mind]

 

To conclude; spirituality does sometimes bring me to the nature of animals. Because There is one thing I know: if in a group of bonobo-monkeys, if one takes the food of another or hurts one of the group, the group will love and caress and be very sweet to the wrong-doer. For it is in their nature that they know it is the wrongdoer who has to learn love again

 – I very much like the suggestion of the Bonobo Monkeys! [T.K.]

– We also welcome every reader to post your answers and views to the reactions.  –

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – -– – – – – – – –

Read more on this blog
[
#OccupyTogether: Let us start a new way ]
The transforming reality [and the power of art ]
#Occupy and Exodus: we are guided by our ancestors ]
[ 20 manieren op de Occupy-beweging te helpen ]
[ Sri Aurobindo en de Universele Stad ]

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

Merge with yourself
through merging the contradictions:
JOIN IN A WORLDWIDE THEATER EXPERIMENT
TIMELESS SPACES

8 thoughts on “10 questions to #Occupy Together

  1. These are very suggestive questions ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suggestion ) because the answer is incorporated in the question. this is a typical techique of manipulation ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_manipulation ). I will show this by adding another question.

    (5) If we stopped believing in the division they uphold, and started to believe in Unity, why do we create a new division of us-and-them? And how do we make unity of that idea?

    WHY SHOULD WE UNIFY WITH THE 1%? WHAT IS MEAN BY UNIFICATION? IS IT COPPULATION? OR IS IT SLAVERY?

    (9) If we stopped believing in the division they uphold, and started to believe in Unity, why do we create a new division of us-and-them? And how do we make unity of that idea?

    WHY SHOULD WE BELIEVE IN SOME VAGUE UNIFYING MANIPULATION BY A GURU NAMED Sri Aurobindo?

    (10) I know we don’t believe in right or left. I know we will not choose sides anymore. I know we don’t believe in division. But how do we help someone who still does? By protesting against him?

    AND THE GURU Sri Aurobindo KNOWS EVERYTHING? HE CAN READ OUR MIND? HE IS THE ALMIGHTY? WHY SHOULD WE FOLLOW HIM IN HIS MUMBNO JUMBO SHIT? ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mumbo_jumbo_(phrase)

    • Hey dank voor je reactie.

      Eerst en vooral stelde ik vragen omdat ik het antwoord zelf niet weet. Ik riep de vriendelijke hulp in van de mede-protesters.🙂

      Het enige wat ik echter van je hoorde was ‘een protest tegen mijn vragen’. Net dat wat ik bevraag.

      En het feit dat ik jou de vraag stel, betekent misschien dat ik om je mening wel degelijk geef?

  2. (1) We are against the banks because, we have to pay and drastically reduce in our dayly needs, for their mistakes !
    (2)(3) We do not have to teach them and showing them the example, they know well enough how to do it! but they are bitten by the money bactery! Essentially, they have enough of what they need! The ordinary people, don’t interest them! They may drop dead!
    (4)(5) We really stand for, fairness and human dignity! The protests are not extreme enough! They don’t fear us! We have not created two fronts! They themselves have done it, as in the past already happened!
    (7) I think there might be unfortunately no peaceful way.
    (8) The capitalism doesn’t have to fail. They only have to pay taxes just as we do !!
    (9) There always will be a government. The governments don’t want to grow together with us! We tried to include them in our steps!
    (10) Against questions: Do you think they will listening if we do not protesting against them? Previously, we always nodded yes! And what has it brought us?

    “There is one thing I know: if in a group of bonobo-monkeys, if one takes the food of another or hurts one of the group, the group will love and caress and be very sweet to the wrong-doer. For it is the wrongdoer who has to learns love again…”

    Who’s on the right cheek slapping, offer your left cheek too, love and peace, … ?

  3. Thanks for your reaction.🙂

    – But why don’t you see a peaceful way possible? If you claim to be democratic, then I believe violence is the first thing that should be filtered out. Perhaps even in conversation.

    – Perhaps it is the 1 percent that knows very well how much they abuse people and perhaps it is them who created the division. But how do we undo that division? By projecting them as our enemies and fighting them, I believe we agree on the world view they oppose on us. But when we say we are the 100 percent, and that even they are part of this transition, creates a world view which is in favour of all. And when they try to oppose a smaller worldview on a unity that is much larger than themselves, even because they are included, I believe they will realize they are only fighting themselves… That is how this movement convinced me.

    – Nodding yes is perhaps not the answer. Perhaps ignoring their speeches and ignorant rules, and acting yourself towards a more universal truth might not only get us closer, it might also help enlighten them who think they should lead. In creating the things we want to create, without incalculating the limitations they draw for us, we might get further. In creating we are much more powerful than in destroying. Once you create a way that seems to be more generous, more ecstatic, more fair, more balanced and more true, in the end even the toughest nutshells will break open and will evolve and transform with us too. So has Life been evolving ever since.

    – Well, if capitalism takes itself serious, it should realize that is searches for the most efficient ways of creating, commerce and trade. In searching for this efficiency, it will one day very clearly realize that the bank system is the most inefficient system there is. So in the definition of capitalism by banks and transaction control, the break down is already incalculated in its own definition.

    Further more lots of love. And don’t loose your creativity.
    To not agree with something is a cry of a blinded man.
    To provide with the alternative will make us all see.

    Good luck!

  4. ‎(1) Those bankers are full of greed! It is unjust what they do. But what inner-force is driving us to fight them? And why do we fight?
    Humanity is preparing to emerge from adolecence into maturation as a race. For too long, Humankind has… behaved as though they were separate from themselves and from everything else. The current reaction is a reflection of a global rise in consciousness which acknowledges that the system in place needs to change in order to reflect the change of heart underway in the Species.

    (2) We have to fight our governments that keep hurting or killing people. In the protests worldwide, thousands of people died. Even some in Europe or US. We were not able to create a safe-haven for our people ourselves. Just they way our governments can’t? Who is showing them the example? Is there an example? And how can we really do this?
    It is impossible to solve a problem with the same consciousness which created it. We must do the opposite of Fight — we must Love. Only Love can dissolve hate. Only Forgiveness can turn an Enemy into an Ally. Only Awareness can grant the means to Enlighten a Dark System of Control.

    (3) If we know a better way. How do we show it? How do we teach it?
    Each Individual must be his or her own Intrument of Change. We must become the Change we wish to see in the World. This involves using every thought, every word, and every action in a way which produces more Unity, Peace, Love, Tolerance, Altruism, the Right to Peacefully Co-Exist, & Brother/Sisterhood.

    (4) What do we really stand for? Is it ecology? Is it fairness? Is it human dignity? Is it evolution? In this movement, have we gone better or worse? What are the protests worth? Did it involve education? Did it bring us together? Or did it create two new fronts?
    You’ve just asked ten questions. We “really stand for” the emergence of a new global awareness based in cooperation and unity consciousness, arising from the selfishness of the old global awareness. As we come more into balance, and the realization that what one of does affects the reality of what all of us does, we will naturally create more sound ecological policies in line with that realization. The dignity we grant to the least of us will cause those least among us to disappear — for there will be no one to suffer for the ends of another. We have arrived at the threshold of realizing our own means to create our reality — Individually and Collectively. Our Intent and Our Vision of what the Human Species can become will be the guiding force in our conscious evolution. It is impossible to judge a movement’s effectiveness while it is in its early stages; it is only possible to determine if the means used thus far demonstrate Unity and Love. Politics and popular voice reflect the Spirituality of those involved. Thus far, Spirituality — One’s fundamental belief as to how we came to be here & why and how we do what we do — has been used as a ploy to divide us along tribal and religious lines in an effort to prevent us from Uniting against those who are controlling and dictating Earth’s Experience to the rest of humanity. We need to decide, demonstrate, and communicate a new basic idea of who and what a Human Being is, and can become in a conscious and aware universe. The more inclusive Unity and Love is in our solution to the conflict of human experience, the more that solution will be in line with the ultimate truth about the universe. This will be the most important fundamental philosophy of the future.

    (5) If we stopped believing in the division they uphold, and started to believe in Unity, why do we create a new division of us-and-them? And how do we make unity of that idea?
    I believe that as people begin to embrace each other as physical representations of the same Universal Consciousness, they will naturally see past the differences of religion, race, color, creed, spiritual orientation, denomination, or place of birth. We are in the business of creating a new Culture of Awareness.

    (6) If we believe there is a universal thinking and universal oneness, why do you think some can’t see it yet? Did you include them in your worldview? Why not?
    A thing can be true within the mind of a human being, even if it isn’t necessarily factual. What is needed is a re-education, and a demonstration of what is possible when people come together and use Love as the means to solve their differences. Love makes us see that we are not at all different — we simply have different ideas as to how to approach our common problems.

    (7) It is of course very good to dream of a better world. But how did you imagine the transition in a peaceful way? How do we get from one place to the other? What are the steps?
    Step One is to tell the truth about how the Human Race got to where it is today. Step Two is to forgive those who have been tyrannical and cruel, as they were operating in outdated thinking. Step Three is to agree on a common definition of who and what a Human Being is, what needs a Human Being possesses, and provide avenues for those needs to be met in such a way that it affords everyone involved the easiest way to survive, self-actualize, contribute to the common good, and demonstrate to ourselves, each other, and the rest of creation what a Unified Humanity looks like.

    (8) If economy and capitalism fails completely, how are we going to help the sick and suffering? How will we have to reorganize our structures before the transition can be really made? And who will bundle these?
    Once people come to understand how “commerce” and “money” are yet another system of control, we will naturally devise another system more harmonious and reflective of universal truth. One simple rule will be: if everyone made the same decision and enacted it the same way, would the result be separation or unity? Once we cease competing with each other, glorifying glory at the expense of another, and embrace Love as the means of co-creation, every policy becomes exceedingly elementary.

    (9) If there are no more governments, how do we make sure the planet stays in this unity? Why would we first have to fight our governments in order to grow together? Why don’t we include them in the steps? And help them see the unity?
    Governments will not end because they are destroyed by revolution. The only end result of that line of thinking would be the installation of another variation of the system of Governance. The only means of ending government which is in line with Universal Truth is for government to be dissolved because those being governed had evolved past the need for governance. They take care of themselves and all others in the same manner; becuae they see that there is no “other” — All is One.

    (10) I know we don’t believe in right or left. I know we will not choose sides anymore. I know we don’t believe in division. But how do we help someone who still does? By protesting against him?
    No. By Loving them. You can’t convince anybody to do anything they don’t want to do. But if you Love them, eventually they will ask you how you came to know Peace and Love in your life. Then you will Love them some more.

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Occupy-Your-Spiritual-Mind/169215659833973

  5. Ok, here my attempt at answering the above questions:

    (1) – as I see it, bankers and top-business people are currently key players and instrumental in a system that is ever more annihilating the very life-eco-sphere that I am living in today and where any children of future generations may want to live for a perceived ‘profit’.

    The formerly maintained spaces for art & thinking, spirituality and reform, which had timidly been opened up to more than just the elite to develop further, are now being pushed back by “Austerity measures” under the direct control of the elite again, just like it was in the 19th century.

    Above all it seems like the population of this planet is to ever more be diminished by the ever more created impoverishment of even the few rich on this planet (citizens of the “Developed Worlds”) to be made to live as precariously as all other human beings on this planet already, be they Dalit or “Third World” citizens.

    Therefore I protest and resist wherever possible.
    I take it to be my instinct for survival, as a fellow human being, now turned competitor, or face extinction and give up.

    (2) There are already many small-scale experiments going on, from Auroville to many other small communities all over the planet. These communities do create comparably safe havens.
    I recommend to study them and learn, do better still🙂

    (3) I don’t think I should teach anything except by doing and answering when asked. All else leads me, personally, to a level of being that I don’t enjoy, lest that I would continue to exceed dispersing ‘wisdom’ beyond my actual abilities and knowledge.

    (4) My own answer is yes to all of these.

    (5) To recognize even a temporary division may prevent the creation and deepening of a more difficult one to overcome.
    The more privilege gained, the harder to recognize one is enjoying them and the even harder, I’d say, and more reluctance to give up such power.

    (6) I refer here to the story of the three blind people and the elephant, each touching a different part and exclaiming some other conclusion.
    If this story reflects anything ‘universal’ it would help us become more humble and open towards our possible errors, and make us realize that we all need each other’s different perceptions and understandings to come together, in order to get a better perception of the workings of our existence in all the different aspects that we can experience – and to find solutions to new and old problems, whether actual or perceived.
    (I would much rather prefer a game of possibilities and trying out, while basic survival is granted, rather than as now, risk survival as a species and annihilation of an entire ecosystem just for some abstract ideas, or personal shortcomings, such as a perceived scarcity of resources.)

    I am fine to use distinction if it can help identify a problem, such as e.g. the mindset of IN-YANG can help identify a phenomenon (or any other system of distinction)
    as long as I know that they are temporary and only work on their specific level of understanding.

    (7) There is an abundance in historical information, lest it be true, about earlier tries and failures. As long as it is actually possible to try them out I’d say let’s go and try.

    An important understanding for myself: I may perfectly well be able to go on and live my life towards such goals, but someone else may not, and see me only as a possible source of energy for their own needs – And vice versa for sure as well!

    What I see happen currently is that if we don’t unite to give a counterforce, we’ll end up having to work as someone else’s wage-slave, without any alternatives (and perhaps a new caste-system imposed)

    If the following quote is based on historical fact, maybe these are the steps:
    1 – ignored by the powerful
    2 – ridiculed by the powerful
    3 – being attacked with violence
    4 – winning🙂
    (allegedly a saying by Ghandi?)

    (8) I would suppose that I can best help the sick and suffering if I have means to do so, be that enough energy, knowledge, understanding, compassion, know-how, fulfilledness etc.
    The one positive aspect of what is currently happening is that for those of us who lose our comfortable life-style (and finally get to pay-up for the imperialism of the generations before us, even though I’d say it’s to the wrong people for the wrong reasons) in any case, for those of us who find themselves at the looser’s end and get impoverished, there will be many opportunities to be tested as to our abilities in the above – similarly like after the 2nd “World” War in the devastated cities in Europe.

    (9) Our being in similar time-space is all the unity I need, personally. From there, all else follows and is a question of each one of us realising this situation, and that we are in it together.

    (10) Well, protest is one way to raise attention. I very much like the suggestion of the Bonobo Monkeys!🙂

    If these answers provide any good, then hurray …
    Good be with us all.

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